Game Of Thrones Discussion (SPOILERS)

[Guest WingBoy]

So I'm opening up this thread to talk about GOT season 8. There will be spoilers in this thread at some point so if you are not up to date...

 TURN BACK NOW. HOLD THE DOOR AND GET OUT WHILST YOU CAN. FLY YOU FOOLS.

Warnings out the way, buckle in for an essay because I'm a massive nerd for this stuff.

Summary:

So overall I was happy with the ending and the final season. Was there stuff they could have done better? Yes. Was there stuff that was perfect? Yes. This whole witch hunt is absolutely ridiculous in my opinion. They decided that it was going to be a 6 episode final season which sucks. I wanted it to go on for another 3 seasons minimum and they easily could have done that.

Why is everyone hating?

I think the biggest issue is having is coming from 2 main places.

1. People aren't getting the ending they wanted or they think (they're ending would have been better).

2. People didn't want it to end so they are just upset and 'throwing their toys out of the pram'.

I think the first point basically defeats the purpose of having a global show. You are never going to please everyone. I was happy with the ending and I thought the final scenes of episode 6 were perfect. I laughed and got upset all within the space of 20 minutes. In season 1 everybody wanted Ned to survive, he didn't. The red wedding was shocking and awful. The writers have never given us what we want and thats why we all watched it. 

Number 2 is just silly, I fell victim to this after episode 5. I was so tilted after it and I was like, "This is dumb, lets re-write it. Bring me D&D's head." Upon re watching season 6, I began to realise that infact this is a good season. I enjoyed it. Things are getting wrapped up nicely. I'll get onto my specific gripes in a second.

I think the main point that people are failing to come to terms with is The show had to end at some point. Dragging it out could have just resulted in another Lost. 

The pros:

Episode 3 was the best piece of cinematography I have ever witnessed on the small screen. The whole thing had hat tips to saving private ryans opening scene which in my opinion is the best. thing every to be filmed. Episode 3 was gripping and the night kings death had me fucking speechless. Ok I agree there were things wrong with the episode but you are never going to get a perfect thing. Theres always going to be some gripes.
Episode 6 was my second favourite episode. Everything was tied off nicely for me. Dany had to die after her barrage the previous episode. They have been foreshadowing that since season 3. She was going to follow in her fathers footsteps. If you did not see that foreshadow then you are blind. It was incredibly predictable that Jon snow was going to take her down and I didn't mind this so much. The scenes at the end when the small council was discussing how the kingdom was going to rebuild was absolutely brillaint. It had the same wit that we fell in love with throughout the seasons. I feel the humour seemed to get lost the past few seasons however that one scene made up for it. It may just be me but I absolutely loved that scene. 
I especially loved how they paid off all of those things that happened previously in the series such as Arya trying to figure out whats west of westeros, Queen of the north etc...

Oh and CleganeBowl.

There's so many more but I could be here for days. Nobody is going to talk about the good parts so I may as well get onto the stuff people will actually talk about.

The cons:

So lets talk about the big gaping problem. We went the whole season without a big boss battle. I would have loved to see a face off between Cersei and Dany. That's a personal preference for me. The producers were clearly going for a shock and awe factor with Dany going full mad Queen and they needed to do that for the next episode to work so well. I feel like maybe instead of Theon 'Fighting' the Night King, Jon snow could have fought him, lost and then Arya comes in and stabby stabs him, I would have enjoyed that. But then again, who knows!

Game Of Thrones have followed a simple format for their episodes. They have setup episodes and they have the action episodes. The issue this season was we only have 6 bloody episodes. If we had 10, I would have felt much more comfortable throwing in the setup episodes. However the issue we had was every time there was a setup episode, we got increasingly more upset as we just lost another episode to our ticking clock of doom.

During episode 3, a lot more characters should have died. I needed at least 1 main character to peg it to make it seem realistic at least. At the very bloody least chop another hand off of someone for god sakes. They were outnumber 1:400 or something silly like that. Kill. Someone.

Death by brick.

A big issue I have is the dumbing down of Tyrions character. The wisest man in the whole of Westeros. 4 seasons ago he would have avoided all this nonsense. We wouldn't have allowed for any of it to happen however I feel like he was dumbed down alot. Tyrion always held the best dialogue on the show and it was something I craved however never got. This season we only got jokes about him wanting a womans mouth round his cock when he died. It seems the bigger the audience GOT got, the more dumbed down the show got.

I'm sure I've left some big ones out however those are the ones that spring to mind after watching season 8 twice now. 

Conclusion:

This god damn show has become so popular, people are hating because its popular to hate on it. You need to hold the show comparable to other shows we have. Most shows end in a way viewers don't like and the reason is we don't like it when our favourite shows end.

Personally this show is the best show I have ever seen and I cannot wait to finish off reading the books when GRRM stops eating and continues to write. Like any show it has it's pros and cons however the idea that season 8 is the worst series is a farse.

 

This season was a little above average, but in the comparison to other shows it is still a 9/10.

 

[Guest zYamamoto]

Sooo much text for a trash season... feelsbad for you.

[Guest WingBoy]

4 minutes ago, zYamamoto said:

Sooo much text for a trash season... feelsbad for you.

I mean that was so constructive it hurt.

[Guest zYamamoto]

Yeah sorry... wanted to go for a long answer then I realiszed I will not more time with that last season as needed 

[Guest Moirai]

Pics are from last Tuesday, show fucking sucks. Lmao. 

 

Edited May 20, 2019 by Moirai

[Guest WingBoy]

 

1 minute ago, Moirai said:

Pics are from last Tuesday, show fucking sucks. Lmao. 

I don't really know why you say it sucks because of this ? 

[Guest Moirai]

8 minutes ago, WingBoy said:

 

I don't really know why you say it sucks because of this ? 

The earlier seasons set up the characters, desires and motivations and then pitted them against each other, you could clearly see each characters line of reasoning and empathise. Now the characters are parodies of themselves, caricatures of what was previously established, boiled down to one or two key attributes which are overemphasised. The show has devolved into big set pieces with little to no thought behind them, often times breaking the rules of the universe it had previously established. It’s blatantly obvious that the characters aren’t doing something because that’s what they would do, they’re doing it because the writers wrote it that way. You can see the writers invisible hand moving the pieces.

It’s ironic... they defeated the army of the dead but the show itself was a shambling undead husk.

I can go into detail if you’d like but honestly if you can’t see it for yourself it’d be like explaining colour to a blind man and there are already people out there that have dissected and critiqued it far better and in-depth than I am willing to.

I’m not saying it’s bad because of the ending, I’m saying it’s bad because it is bad, lmao. The fact that I was able to predict the ending from a single throwaway scene in the previous season is just the icing on the cake.

Edited May 20, 2019 by Moirai

[Guest WingBoy]

2 minutes ago, Moirai said:

The earlier seasons set up the characters, desires and motivations and then pitted them against each other, you could clearly see each characters line of reasoning and empathise. Now the characters are parodies of themselves, caricatures of what was previously established, boiled down to one or two key attributes which are overemphasised. The show has devolved into big set pieces with little to no thought behind them, often times breaking the rules of the universe it had previously established. It’s blatantly obvious that the characters aren’t doing something because that’s what they would do, they’re doing it because the writers wrote it that way. You can see the writers invisible hand moving the pieces.

It’s ironic... they defeated the army of the dead but the show itself was a shambling undead husk.

I can go into detail if you’d like but honestly if you can’t see it for yourself it’d be like explaining colour to a blind man.

You're 100% right about the boiling down. However in my personal opinion they had to start cutting down somewhere. They couldn't keep it going for another 10 seasons even if it's what we wanted. There was no way we were going to get 2 seasons condensed into 6 episodes and be happy with everything. Out of interest, have you ever finished a series and been happy with the outcome?

[Guest Moirai]

37 minutes ago, WingBoy said:

You're 100% right about the boiling down. However in my personal opinion they had to start cutting down somewhere. They couldn't keep it going for another 10 seasons even if it's what we wanted. There was no way we were going to get 2 seasons condensed into 6 episodes and be happy with everything. Out of interest, have you ever finished a series and been happy with the outcome?

Yeah they did have to start cutting down due to the limitations they imposed on themselves but the fact is they started doing this much earlier aswell, ever since they ran out of book material or guidance from GRRM they have been simplifying, take Season 6 for example, they spent the entire season setting up an interweaving plotline with multiple threads and outcomes and then had no idea to resolve it so just had cercei blow everyone up removing many of the 'pesky' characters to consider for when writing. It's not that they went with something and it didn't successfully land, there are many missteps in the great seasons of 1 - 5 but now it's clear to me that they just wanted to wrap everything up as fast as possible with 'minimal effort' and move on to different projects, such as directing Star Wars. The staff behind game of thrones did a fantastic job! The set, constumes, effects, everything is great. The actors did an amazing job. I harbour no ill will towards any of them, the writing just straight up isn't there.

As for your other question, yeah I enjoy most shows I watch, I even enjoy a lot of shows I can objectively call 'mediocre'. I can watch pretty much anything and enjoy it through to the end but I don't consider this to even be the same show. Game of Thrones is like going down a river in a boat, what's ahead of you is secluded, obscured by trees, caves, all manner of curiosities, the river twists and turns and you don't know what you're going to see around the next bend, you travel down this river for years and years seeing amazing sights to behold on the way, you don't know where the river is taking you but you have many ideas of what could be ahead. Finally you reach the end, the mouth of the river, it opens up into a wide expanse, fireworks pop off all around you ceremoniously, you gaze up in disappointment as if to ask; "Is this it?" You see a beautiful clear blue sky except for a single cloud, as you look at the cloud you in amazement you realise it kinda resembles the shape of dickbutt, you look back down in confusement only to realise moments before your death you're going down a waterfall.

But hey, what do I know? I guess the real game of thrones were the friends we made along the way.

Edited May 20, 2019 by Moirai

[Guest Azoth]

This forum probably isn't the best place if you want a good discussion, but since a serious topic deserves a serious response, here goes:

 

A lot of people say that the show declined after it went past the books, which seems to make sense. GRRM created a masterpiece in many aspects and it's easy to just say that things went to shit without his guidance. However, the idea that there's some magical resolution that makes everyone happy locked up in GRRM's mind is pure fantasy. If that were the case they'd be published already. The reality is that he created a giant tangled mess of plotlines that he himself doesn't know how to resolve. The scriptwriters had to try to make sense of that mess, and while they didn't do a great job, at least they did something. They had to make decisions, and bring things to a close. It's better than leaving things in limbo for years and years and hoping you can stall until you die.

That being said, the decisions made during this last season were pretty bad overall. First and foremost is of course, Dany's descent into the Mad Queen.

Let's get this straight, that Dany was the Mad King's daughter is NOT foreshadowing that she will go down the same path. The whole point was that she is not bound by her blood, and the sins of the father do not pass down to the daughter. For 90% of the show she has adhered to a moral code, killing only those who she believes deserve it and doing her best to spare the innocent. That's what Cersei uses against her, by holding the civilians of King's Landing as effective hostages. Over the course of a single episode, Dany transforms from a harsh but still fair queen into a genocidal yandere tyrant. While some fans will always feel betrayed that their favorite character who they have followed since the beginning came to such an ignoble end, the main problem is not that it happened, it is how quickly it happened. They should have started foreshadowing this two seasons ago, and again, just mentioning her father does not count. You don't just wake up one morning and decide to burn a city down.

This is the big one, and one I believe they could have fixed if they had more time to work with. Regardless of the reason for the abbreviated season, 6 episodes is a short time to wrap everything up. A lot of the criticisms levied are not because something happened, but how it happened. A few more episodes to flesh things out would alleviated many of these problems. However, there are some that just stand out as 'why would you ever choose to do this.'

The biggest for me is Episode 3. You mentioned this as one of the best you’ve seen but I can’t help but have my immersion ruined by all the flaws. I’m not a military person by any means, so when I watch a battle like the great sieges in LotR, it all seems reasonable and I can sit back and enjoy. In the battle against the White Walkers, there were so many decisions that just made no sense. Why are they sending their cavalry on a suicide charge into the darkness? Why are the siege engines placed *in front* of the infantry? Why do they wait until the dead break through the ring of fire to start firing arrows? Why is there a single squad defending Bran when it should be a battalion of Unsullied waiting in ambush with dragonglass and Valyrian steel? They would have literally all died if Arya hadn’t got a lucky shot in. They should have rings of barricades and earthworks and fire, infantry to plug the chokepoints, archers and siege engines pounding away, cavalry to harass the flanks, and dragons to stop any major breakthroughs. Instead we have one of the most nonsensical battles I’ve ever seen. The more I watch it, the less I understand.

As for characters, we’ve already gone over Dany, but there are others that deserve mention. After seasons of character development, Jamie is right back where he started, throwing everything away for the most hated character in the show. Not before he has an 'affair' with and immediately dumps Brienne, because god forbid the strong warrior-lady is in a healthy relationship. That Jamie and Cersei reunite before the end just feels like a kick in the crotch because as the architect of most of the terrible shit in the series, if anyone deserved to suffer it was Cersei. I thought that Ramsay Bolton’s death was poetic justice and was hoping for the same for Cersei, but alas she gets the best end possible, under the circumstances.

Tyrion goes from skilled administrator and adviser to bumbling buffoon, losing Dorne and later a dragon because he ‘forgot’ that the Iron Fleet existed, and taking Cersei at her word regarding the Night King with no ability to enforce the agreement when she inevitably reneges.

The last episode was… ok, given the circumstances. Dany obviously had to die, and Jon obviously couldn’t be king after killing her. I thought the way they decided to ‘break the wheel’ was pretty weak, since they just went from a monarchy to an oligarchy. Don’t really see how that’s much better, although I did like that when Samwell brought up the concept of democracy he was immediately laughed down, which is the realistic reaction that a group of nobles would have to that idea. The ending was fine, except Arya’s end was completely out of the blue. I would have been fine if she returned to Winterfell, or wandered Westeros, or went back to Braavos. Instead she decides to sail west because… why? Nowhere is it mentioned that anyone wanted to do this, let alone her. I don’t see why she made this decision or why her family seems totally fine with her making a trip that seems likely to end with death by storm, thirst, or hunger.

Anyways, that’s a brief overview of some of my problems with the last season. There are problems because they needed to cut it down to 6 episodes, and problems they had regardless of length. Arguing that it's not the weakest season of the show is an uphill battle. It’s easy to blame the scriptwriters after the show moved past the books, but let’s be real: GRRM has no idea how to finish the story either and we’re never going to see book 7. It’s not like this doesn’t happen all the time; most serialized dramas get worse as they run, because it’s easier to create an interesting story than conclude it. They don’t get a free pass for that though, and neither should GoT.

Edited May 20, 2019 by Azoth